At least you had someone recognizable at your school graduation. We just had some random Asian lady who donated money to the school. No one knew who tf she was. Speech was about as white bread as it got.
loved leary's riff on cancer warnings attached to cigarette packages ie "Fuck that.. show me a black box with a skull and crossbones on it and ill smoke the shit out of it!!"
Well I just learned something- I am a skeptic optimist as I ask many questions whether it’s business, family, personal enjoyment, etc. I really think of that as necessary for business (I was an environmental planner), for accuracy in what was being asked of myself and the agencies I represented (for legislative, technical, prevention, remediation and restoration measures) but also to hold real conversations with people to learn of them and from. Isn’t it strange how so many words can be applied to every situation, action, emotion, intangible things that happen to ourselves and the world around us. I guess my optimism is thinking that everyone wants the right outcome in every situation without bias, prejudice, greed or self-serving. Mind you I have been tricked, cheated and blind-sided a few times and for those individuals or companies I am a very cautious skeptic in dealing with them. Great chatting with you, keep up the great work.
Jun 11, 2023·edited Jun 11, 2023Liked by Michael Estrin
I don't even remember who spoke at my graduation, much less anything they said! Ever since Michael's previous Notes thread, I've been trying to think, "is there ANYTHING I could have said to my younger self at a graduation that would have been actually helpful to me at the time?" And honestly, I'm not sure there is. So much of what I've learned only makes sense with experience and hindsight, which you unfortunately don't have much of when you're young. Most of the wise words I remember came at specific moments in my life when I needed advice about a specific challenge I was facing at the time. I would venture to guess that in general, unsolicited or impersonal advice is very rarely remembered, no matter how true or well-intentioned it is.
Such a great point about profound advice coming when you need it, or when you’re willing to listen. Graduations are a rite of passage, but the ritual of giving advice may not land as well as we hope since the audience is probably in a mood to celebrate more than reflect. Now that I think about it, I wonder if the speech is more for the olds in the audience than the graduates.
Just wondering if you three are pessimists by nature or training - or just for comedic effect? You spoke truth but you also left out a vital acknowledgment of hope - that what we do will help someone including ourselves or loved ones, our community including the natural world. Even small optimistic words, gestures or deeds can provide a light to a better future. I’m an optimist even when I’m catastrophizing!
Hi Susan, I’m a skeptical optimist by nature. Usually, my humor has some hope in it, but these pieces are satire, and hope just doesn’t work with satire.
Thanks for the question! It’s a big and earnest one, so I took a bit to think about this.
Creatively, my priorities are insight and entertainment. I don’t have much of an urge to tilt the tone of a piece/joke/story to intentionally fill a positive or negative niche. An accurate point and my own artistic ego are a heavy enough lift. Where the tone ends up tends to reflect my tilt on the topic, what seems funny on the page, and simple narrative gravity.
In day-to-day life, away from the page, I try to take things as they come (“try” does some work here, I’m as prone to moods and misreading as anyone). I’m not a real believer in an inherent positive or negative tint to the universe as a whole. Some things are beautiful miracles. Some things are mind-shattering nightmares. I even (personally) think it can be an intellectual mistake to try to bend things toward a hopeful/dismal conclusion for philosophy, fashion, or flavor.
If Michael and Amran don’t mind me dissecting the frog a little: three factors lead to my outer limits tone here. The element of life I’m looking directly at is uncomfortable by nature. That’s topic. Structurally, a downward spiral is a useful arc, adding readability to the whole as each speech gets crazier. That’s storytelling. And it’s inherently funny (to me) to talk about reality’s shadow to a roomful of children. That’s comedy’s vote.
In short, for me, optimism and pessimism are grist for the mill. Thank you for asking!
No, No, No, and No. Did I go to school? I barely remember any of it except fleeting interactions with fellow students. And feeling more mature than I do now. And thinking we look more grown up than kids look now.
2. Some people riffed on this idea in your epic Notes thread, but I'm a fan of this mantra: Be a serious person, but don't take life too seriously. To me, that means think hard about your actions, do a good job, be reliable, be fair, but do all those things while recognizing existence is one big cosmic accident, everything's absurd, we'll all die, and none of this actually matters.
3. See #2. But also: learn what you can from the generations that came before you, but also realize they're the ones who effed everything up. You need old people's wisdom, but don't let them off the hook for creating the problems you'll have to solve.
4. Zero recollection of my high school graduation. Current Secretary of Energy and then Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm spoke at my college graduation. I remember thinking her speech was well-delivered, but unremarkable. https://record.umich.edu/articles/2003-u-m-spring-commencement-activities/
My high school commencement speaker was Peter Norton of Norton antivirus fame. I remember thinking, this dude really wants to be Bill Gates, but he’s not. My college commencement speaker was Amartya Sen (Nobel prize winning economist). I remember thinking Kabir’s dad is way smarter than Kabir (we were the same year at Wesleyan). I didn’t attend my law school graduation. I remember thinking that was the right call, and I still think that; bunch of assholes.
neither are quite right but from my own experience cynicism wears thin whereas idealism gone awry (garage door installers?)
is so much more nurturing of humor and doesnt risk alienating people as much as negativity of cynicism...but dont get me wrong the cynic route is still viable to smuggle in insurgent immigrant ideas!!!
I agree. I’m also sarcastic by nature but hope my manner belies my words. I love your writing. Isn’t a sceptical optimistic an oxymoron. Now a skeptic pessimist would actually be a good thing.
Skeptical optimism feels like an oxymoron, but it shouldn’t be. Skeptics ask questions and investigate, but unlike cynics there’s room for hope and positivity. That said, it’s not blind optimism, or hope without any basis in reality. It’s a tricky mindset to thread, but that’s my general outlook.
I'd say I'm a skeptical pessimist, but one who's secretly an optimist. Michael's helped me crystallize my own thinking about this kind of writing, and my own voice as a writer, too. This kind of work leans dark and seems really hopeless, but by reveling in that darkness we're actually pointing out what's wrong. Imagining a better future is thus implied.
i would defend cynics as disillusioned idealists or maybe what you are all calling optimists (same thing right?) skeptic seems more in scientific aristotelian category and optimism veers into the more spiritual sphere hmmmmmm
That’s a great point! I know a lot of cyclical people who started out as very romantic / idealistic. I wasn’t so idealistic when I was younger. Some of that was coming of age in the 1990s when apathy was all the rage, but some of that was just me (I think). At any rate, I’ve danced a little with idealism and cynicism, but neither one felt quite right. I should also add, skepticism informs my world view, but I don’t know if it really informs my humor.
I agree about cynics being disillusioned romantics, but I definitely think there’s a difference between cynics and skeptics. To me cynicism has a bitterness to it, while skeptics question the situation.
These were fun! I’d say I’m an optimist with a Jersey kind of skepticism thrown in to keep me on my toes. I’m always there for hope and positivity. Always.
PS That’s not to say I can’t get into a screed about the things that are wrong with our society and country, And sometimes how people are super creeps. But mostly I believe in the goodness of humanity, with some exceptions. And that many people are out there fighting the good fight. But humor is usually fueled by anger and rage, and that to me is a great way of giving people hope. So there’s my optimistic view again. See?
When I was younger I thought all humor came from anger. One note I’d get a lot on my work in those days was, this is funny, but there’s no heart. It took me years to figure out what that meant. Anger still has it’s place for me, but as I’ve aged (matured) I’ve found the heart and I think my work is better for it.
Denis Leary spoke at my college graduation. I remember absolutely nothing he said. Your speeches are more memorable IMO.
I’m picturing Dennis Leary in a cap and gown, pacing in on the stage, smoking a cigarette, and yelling about some nonsense.
He didn’t smoke or yell. That would’ve been better!
See if you can get a refund on your tuition.
At least you had someone recognizable at your school graduation. We just had some random Asian lady who donated money to the school. No one knew who tf she was. Speech was about as white bread as it got.
If you donate enough family money to the college, you’re allowed to tell the students that anything is possible.
I wish I had enough money to tell people anything was possible. I only have enough money to tell people, "What's the worst that can happen?"
loved leary's riff on cancer warnings attached to cigarette packages ie "Fuck that.. show me a black box with a skull and crossbones on it and ill smoke the shit out of it!!"
Great bit!
That is strikingly high on the list of interesting people whose opinion I’d never pay for.
I like that he has a recognizable comic persona, but his comedy doesn’t do much for me.
"he wants you to know that he’s British by [way] of Florida)"
That is me Right.
hows this for an ad (you hucksters): "Silence is Golden. Molson Golden. Drink...drink to forget and LIVE!!"
I would buy a full-length album of mic feedback called Novocain for Ennui. Just fyi
I'm hitting the studio.
if u get a tattoo of a mcrib on ur butt u should be able to eat mcribs for free whenever, and that includes when they are not available
4. I don't remember the speech at my graduation. High school OR college.
But I would have remembered if you guys gave it. 💜
Well I just learned something- I am a skeptic optimist as I ask many questions whether it’s business, family, personal enjoyment, etc. I really think of that as necessary for business (I was an environmental planner), for accuracy in what was being asked of myself and the agencies I represented (for legislative, technical, prevention, remediation and restoration measures) but also to hold real conversations with people to learn of them and from. Isn’t it strange how so many words can be applied to every situation, action, emotion, intangible things that happen to ourselves and the world around us. I guess my optimism is thinking that everyone wants the right outcome in every situation without bias, prejudice, greed or self-serving. Mind you I have been tricked, cheated and blind-sided a few times and for those individuals or companies I am a very cautious skeptic in dealing with them. Great chatting with you, keep up the great work.
I don't even remember who spoke at my graduation, much less anything they said! Ever since Michael's previous Notes thread, I've been trying to think, "is there ANYTHING I could have said to my younger self at a graduation that would have been actually helpful to me at the time?" And honestly, I'm not sure there is. So much of what I've learned only makes sense with experience and hindsight, which you unfortunately don't have much of when you're young. Most of the wise words I remember came at specific moments in my life when I needed advice about a specific challenge I was facing at the time. I would venture to guess that in general, unsolicited or impersonal advice is very rarely remembered, no matter how true or well-intentioned it is.
Such a great point about profound advice coming when you need it, or when you’re willing to listen. Graduations are a rite of passage, but the ritual of giving advice may not land as well as we hope since the audience is probably in a mood to celebrate more than reflect. Now that I think about it, I wonder if the speech is more for the olds in the audience than the graduates.
Just wondering if you three are pessimists by nature or training - or just for comedic effect? You spoke truth but you also left out a vital acknowledgment of hope - that what we do will help someone including ourselves or loved ones, our community including the natural world. Even small optimistic words, gestures or deeds can provide a light to a better future. I’m an optimist even when I’m catastrophizing!
Hi Susan, I’m a skeptical optimist by nature. Usually, my humor has some hope in it, but these pieces are satire, and hope just doesn’t work with satire.
Thanks for the question! It’s a big and earnest one, so I took a bit to think about this.
Creatively, my priorities are insight and entertainment. I don’t have much of an urge to tilt the tone of a piece/joke/story to intentionally fill a positive or negative niche. An accurate point and my own artistic ego are a heavy enough lift. Where the tone ends up tends to reflect my tilt on the topic, what seems funny on the page, and simple narrative gravity.
In day-to-day life, away from the page, I try to take things as they come (“try” does some work here, I’m as prone to moods and misreading as anyone). I’m not a real believer in an inherent positive or negative tint to the universe as a whole. Some things are beautiful miracles. Some things are mind-shattering nightmares. I even (personally) think it can be an intellectual mistake to try to bend things toward a hopeful/dismal conclusion for philosophy, fashion, or flavor.
If Michael and Amran don’t mind me dissecting the frog a little: three factors lead to my outer limits tone here. The element of life I’m looking directly at is uncomfortable by nature. That’s topic. Structurally, a downward spiral is a useful arc, adding readability to the whole as each speech gets crazier. That’s storytelling. And it’s inherently funny (to me) to talk about reality’s shadow to a roomful of children. That’s comedy’s vote.
In short, for me, optimism and pessimism are grist for the mill. Thank you for asking!
Anytime you wanna dissect the frog, I’m all ears.
No, No, No, and No. Did I go to school? I barely remember any of it except fleeting interactions with fellow students. And feeling more mature than I do now. And thinking we look more grown up than kids look now.
1. Still rattled from that debacle at Liberty.
2. Some people riffed on this idea in your epic Notes thread, but I'm a fan of this mantra: Be a serious person, but don't take life too seriously. To me, that means think hard about your actions, do a good job, be reliable, be fair, but do all those things while recognizing existence is one big cosmic accident, everything's absurd, we'll all die, and none of this actually matters.
3. See #2. But also: learn what you can from the generations that came before you, but also realize they're the ones who effed everything up. You need old people's wisdom, but don't let them off the hook for creating the problems you'll have to solve.
4. Zero recollection of my high school graduation. Current Secretary of Energy and then Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm spoke at my college graduation. I remember thinking her speech was well-delivered, but unremarkable. https://record.umich.edu/articles/2003-u-m-spring-commencement-activities/
My high school commencement speaker was Peter Norton of Norton antivirus fame. I remember thinking, this dude really wants to be Bill Gates, but he’s not. My college commencement speaker was Amartya Sen (Nobel prize winning economist). I remember thinking Kabir’s dad is way smarter than Kabir (we were the same year at Wesleyan). I didn’t attend my law school graduation. I remember thinking that was the right call, and I still think that; bunch of assholes.
Skipped my MBA graduation too. Great minds.
neither are quite right but from my own experience cynicism wears thin whereas idealism gone awry (garage door installers?)
is so much more nurturing of humor and doesnt risk alienating people as much as negativity of cynicism...but dont get me wrong the cynic route is still viable to smuggle in insurgent immigrant ideas!!!
ohhh fuck this Must be Sunday lol
I feel like the garage door installers were more naive than idealistic. God loves fools, and so do comedy writers.
oh i wasnt corelating the 2 more separating skeptic from optos ha, i got a huxley novel here!!
I agree. I’m also sarcastic by nature but hope my manner belies my words. I love your writing. Isn’t a sceptical optimistic an oxymoron. Now a skeptic pessimist would actually be a good thing.
Skeptical optimism feels like an oxymoron, but it shouldn’t be. Skeptics ask questions and investigate, but unlike cynics there’s room for hope and positivity. That said, it’s not blind optimism, or hope without any basis in reality. It’s a tricky mindset to thread, but that’s my general outlook.
I'd say I'm a skeptical pessimist, but one who's secretly an optimist. Michael's helped me crystallize my own thinking about this kind of writing, and my own voice as a writer, too. This kind of work leans dark and seems really hopeless, but by reveling in that darkness we're actually pointing out what's wrong. Imagining a better future is thus implied.
i would defend cynics as disillusioned idealists or maybe what you are all calling optimists (same thing right?) skeptic seems more in scientific aristotelian category and optimism veers into the more spiritual sphere hmmmmmm
That’s a great point! I know a lot of cyclical people who started out as very romantic / idealistic. I wasn’t so idealistic when I was younger. Some of that was coming of age in the 1990s when apathy was all the rage, but some of that was just me (I think). At any rate, I’ve danced a little with idealism and cynicism, but neither one felt quite right. I should also add, skepticism informs my world view, but I don’t know if it really informs my humor.
I agree about cynics being disillusioned romantics, but I definitely think there’s a difference between cynics and skeptics. To me cynicism has a bitterness to it, while skeptics question the situation.
These were fun! I’d say I’m an optimist with a Jersey kind of skepticism thrown in to keep me on my toes. I’m always there for hope and positivity. Always.
PS That’s not to say I can’t get into a screed about the things that are wrong with our society and country, And sometimes how people are super creeps. But mostly I believe in the goodness of humanity, with some exceptions. And that many people are out there fighting the good fight. But humor is usually fueled by anger and rage, and that to me is a great way of giving people hope. So there’s my optimistic view again. See?
PPS That’s not to say all humor comes from anger cause I don’t think it does. Just some of it . :)
When I was younger I thought all humor came from anger. One note I’d get a lot on my work in those days was, this is funny, but there’s no heart. It took me years to figure out what that meant. Anger still has it’s place for me, but as I’ve aged (matured) I’ve found the heart and I think my work is better for it.
Your writing definitely has heart!
Mr. Dayle is correct.
Score!