In response to your first question, a Lemony Snicket quote comes to mind: “When someone is crying, of course, the noble thing to do is to comfort them. But if someone is trying to hide their tears, it may also be noble to pretend you do not notice them.”
That being said, I’m afraid we live in a world in which people are increasingly prone to isolation and less likely to comfort a stranger.
I've never heard that Lemony Snicket quote, but I think it's perfect, Micah. Thank you for sharing it. And sadly, I agree with you, the world seems to be trending toward isolation.
How do you make time not to be isolated, Michael? Often, when I read your work, I realize how much I isolate myself because I’m busy writing or interacting and networking on Substack. You pay such close attention to real human interactions, you overhear so much, and you always seem to get into conversations without a screen in front of your face. How do you do it? Do you put your phone away when you're out and leave the Substacking when you're home? I make a rule of putting my phone away when I'm out, but it seems I have 10% of the interactions you do.
I am reading this at 3:30 am in a bout of insomnia. It’s just beautiful. I want to think about it some more in the light of day, dnd maybe comment on the duration of grief (I have a story to share about the one year mark). For now, I just want to thank you for revealing humanity at its finest. Sorry about the bad coffee though.
That's very true! I've on been to Seattle once, and flown through the airport a few times. The coffee is always top-notch, and get the sense that if it wasn't there would be hell to pay.
Grief lasts as long as it lasts. It's the love we aren't able to share with the person who is gone. I may not feel the grief as strongly ten years after her passing but I still miss a dear friend every day.
Okay - here's my daylight comment -- My brother and I disagree about politics and religion. The night before our mother's funeral (at which I was officiating), he came to see me with a book explaining Jewish mourning traditions and a black wristband with the mourner's kaddash embossed on it. I learned that Jews mourn their parents longer than anyone else. In a nod to him, I included some Jewish theology in my remarks and put on the wrist band, though I figured I would remove it as soon as I got home. I didn't. One day passed and then another and eventually I realized I liked having this visible symbol of mourning, something that is lacking in American back-to-business asap culture. I kept that bracelet on for a full year, only ready to relinquish it at month 13. I wish I could adequately express thanks to my brother for opening my eyes and heart. Sadly, he became a diehard Trump supporter and apparently there is no room for nuance or grace in our relationship. In a funny way, I think he's replaying our parents' political schism with me. Mom was a devoted Kennedy Democrat, Dad was a Nixon man. As a little kid, I thought that was why they got divorced.
Alison, thank you for coming back to leave this comment. What you said about the black ribbon really resonated. I’m Jewish, but not religious. I thought I’d take the black ribbon off as soon as I got home, but I wore it for months and kept it on my desk for a year. Strange that we both felt the same way about that tradition, isn’t it?
I think without maybe meaning to initially, you did the exact thing she needed by being gentle in your approach but then ultimately making her laugh. I loved this post 🧡.
As usual, I can’t remember all of your questions by the time I get to my comment. But I definitely read the situation and lean in more than not (I would probably be a terrible social worker if I didn’t). Though if I can see someone is really struggling to put a lid on their emotions, I might just make a kind face before moving on with my order. After all, it’s more about their goals in that moment than any “credit” I get for trying to be human.
I don’t often enter donut shops (I agree the coffee usually stinks, and that goes for the big chain shops too). But when I do, it’s a Krispy Kreme and I am expressly there to experience a chocolate covered, “kreme” filled donut. I might also buy a pumpkin glazed if the season is right, because I’m proud to be just a little basic 🎃.
I can’t wait in some ways to be elderly, when I can eat pastries with impunity. I’ve said that for years.
Thank you, Amy! Truth be told, I have trouble remember the questions too. I wish there was a way for them to be present when you go to comment, but I don't think that's a feature Substack is going to prioritize. Sigh.
Anyway, I really appreciate your comment about leaning in when you can. I have quite a few friends who are social workers, and for the most part, they are the types who leaned in quite naturally.
As for the donuts, you're making good choices! And here's to getting old and eating donuts with impunity, that's a damn dream!
Legit there are at least 5,479 weird things about me, but two of them are that I ALWAYS drink my coffee with a straw [pauses for gasp] and I love whip cream on top like a real psycho. (So then I can expertly shovel it out with the straw--a talent that is often imitated, never duplicated. 😂 Mostly because other people have way more good sense than me.) Glad you made her day - she can use all the laughs she can get. 💛
Thank you, Ash! Can you say more about the whipped cream coffee connection? Where did you learn this? Is there a coffee culture that does whipped cream that I'm unaware of? I need to know. 😂☕️
I think it’s called “growing up in a trailer park with a mom who was trying to make things better through the little details she could afford.” ❤️ It was our afternoon treat in the summer--coffee with whip cream. Thanks for asking--that was a nice memory to unpack!
Thank you for sharing that beautiful memory. Btw, if you check the comments on this post you’ll see that you’re not alone on the whipped cream in coffee thing.
I struggle to separate others’ emotions from my own which is why I could never be a counsellor. I’d probably cry more than the client, then take it home with me and cry some more.
I think you have to be a particular type of personality to manage the separation. I remember asking a counsellor friend about that. She told me that she doesn’t take it home because it isn’t her pain. Another counsellor friend told me that she doesn’t take on anything that she knows might trigger her own emotions or experiences, which makes sense - that’s self protection.
Such a real life story. Pain is part of life. So is laughter. And confusion. And sympathy. It's all part of being human.
I can't conceive of going into a donut shop and not getting a donut. It is a donut shop! That is its purpose. But, I don't drink coffee, so I have no other reason to visit donut shop.
Thanks Mark! Regarding donut shops and their purpose, my local donut shop also sells lottery tickets, so there are people who go there and don’t get coffee or donuts. Just lottery tickets. Nuts, right?
So I have this idea. And it kind of draws from this notion in Buddhism that our dead loved ones can hear us while they’re traveling to their next resting place. And, if you want to, you should talk to them—because they can be encouraged by being reminded of our love for them.
Anyways, there were specific places in my grief where I definitely sensed I was still “tethered” to my loved ones (children, a beloved dog). I would talk to them, imagine them walking in a meadow, I’d sing to them and try to keep them company, such as it was. This “tethering” lasted a year in one case, three in another. But then there was this point where my “grief songs” felt like their job was done and the tether turned into something else entirely. What, I am not sure. But I just know things changed and it felt like maybe they had “arrived” wherever they were headed next. And so had I?
***
I think you work so adeptly with dialogue. It really inspires me in my own writing (and eavesdropping). Also, I didn’t know there was a custom for Jewish sons placing the headstone for their father after a year of grieving. That feels very discerning to me, like someone standing guard for your grief to give it some space. Thank you for sharing about that.
I think this is a beautiful idea, Amanda. I've heard lots of nurses say that you should talk to loved ones even if you think they can't hear you, because maybe they can. And who really knows what happens after we die, right? Maybe we're all just energy and star dust, but we sorta cling to the people who love us, and listen in for whatever they have to say. I hope that's the case.
As for the Jewish custom, it's not specific to father's and sons. I was just talking about my own experience with my dad after he passed. The custom is to stay away from the grave for a year, then on the one-year anniversary, the family gathers to place the headstone. I'm Jewish, but not very religious, so I'm not sure what the rationale is there. But that's how we do it.
I definitely think the afterlife is best left open to the imagination. There’s a lot about grief that can be unrelenting and having to then fit it inside one specific (usually religious) narrative just adds to the cruelty.
Thanks for clarifying about the custom. I must have misunderstood in my first reading. My therapist said once that it’s not just coincidence that we go a little sideways around anniversaries of loss. It’s the body’s way of “remembering.” So a custom seems like a fitting use of that energy that’s coming.
More often I worry I will say the wrong thing and then don't say anything at all. My first reaction is to hug, if it is a person close to me. An acquaintance, I might say do you need my help.
Grief takes as long as it takes. Every person is different, every relationship changes the dynamic of the grieving. Hardcore grieving should last no more than 2 years.
My steadfast rule is if you drive to a doughnut shop, you are honestly not there for the coffee. I'm there for the crullers and powdered sugar cake doughnut.
When I was a child my mom made doughnuts in her electric deep fat fryer, they were to die for, coated in powdered sugar. Old fashion doughnut shop doughnuts come close.
Whipping cream, of course, is a condiment at my house. Great for a quick snack, the list of uses is long, on berries, on ice cream, and definitely in coffee, I call it a quick latte.
Thank for this comment, Judith! I think you’re probably right about donut shops. But what I really want now are homemade donuts. Those sound sooooo good!
I lean in. I'm old enough to have experienced a myriad of pains. So I try to empathize.
Grief takes a lifetime. But I feel it's proportionate to the size of the loss.
I like the occasional donut but prefer scones. The go to is lemon filled.
I don't know too much donut history. But I suspect they were rather simple.
No whipped cream in my coffee. Although it might work and not cool down coffee?
I'm definitely a "room for cream" club member. I'm not opposed to flavored creamer. And those English Toffee gas station fake lattes are a delicious alternative to an energy drink. But they come out so hot, and their deliciousness is so tempting, I burn my mouth every time.
Thanks for this comment, Christie, and the tip about the English Toffee gas station fake lattes! I usually just grab a Coke Zero if I need the caffeine and some gas, but I'll have to give the hot stuff a try.
I feel that the duration of the grieving process strongly depends on how open a person is to accepting the passing of a loved one. Attachment to a loved one can cause great pain as the person learns to cope and acclimatize to their absence. Even if that person might have had a love and hate relationship with the departed, the absence can still create a massive void in their life. It can take years if not decades for the person to grief if they have a hard time of letting go of the departed and continue to dwell in the denial of their passing. However, spiritual practices can help alleviate suffering while grieving as they gain a deeper understanding of death and shorten the grieving process.
How long does grief take? It depends on the person that has died. I take the view that we of course, bury our dead, but honour them most by caring for the still living.
In response to your first question, a Lemony Snicket quote comes to mind: “When someone is crying, of course, the noble thing to do is to comfort them. But if someone is trying to hide their tears, it may also be noble to pretend you do not notice them.”
That being said, I’m afraid we live in a world in which people are increasingly prone to isolation and less likely to comfort a stranger.
I've never heard that Lemony Snicket quote, but I think it's perfect, Micah. Thank you for sharing it. And sadly, I agree with you, the world seems to be trending toward isolation.
How do you make time not to be isolated, Michael? Often, when I read your work, I realize how much I isolate myself because I’m busy writing or interacting and networking on Substack. You pay such close attention to real human interactions, you overhear so much, and you always seem to get into conversations without a screen in front of your face. How do you do it? Do you put your phone away when you're out and leave the Substacking when you're home? I make a rule of putting my phone away when I'm out, but it seems I have 10% of the interactions you do.
You so beautifully capture what it means to be human in this piece. The sorrow, the tenderness, the awkward weirdness, the humor.
I don’t think grief ever goes away. I might think about that loved one less often, but when I do think of them, the grief is still there.
Thank you, Jane.
I am reading this at 3:30 am in a bout of insomnia. It’s just beautiful. I want to think about it some more in the light of day, dnd maybe comment on the duration of grief (I have a story to share about the one year mark). For now, I just want to thank you for revealing humanity at its finest. Sorry about the bad coffee though.
Thank you, Alison! I hope the insomnia passed. Was it too much bad coffee?
Lol - I live in Seattle. Our bad coffee is another city’s excellent coffee!
That's very true! I've on been to Seattle once, and flown through the airport a few times. The coffee is always top-notch, and get the sense that if it wasn't there would be hell to pay.
Passive-aggressive Seattle-style hell to pay :)
Grief lasts as long as it lasts. It's the love we aren't able to share with the person who is gone. I may not feel the grief as strongly ten years after her passing but I still miss a dear friend every day.
Beautifully put, David!
Okay - here's my daylight comment -- My brother and I disagree about politics and religion. The night before our mother's funeral (at which I was officiating), he came to see me with a book explaining Jewish mourning traditions and a black wristband with the mourner's kaddash embossed on it. I learned that Jews mourn their parents longer than anyone else. In a nod to him, I included some Jewish theology in my remarks and put on the wrist band, though I figured I would remove it as soon as I got home. I didn't. One day passed and then another and eventually I realized I liked having this visible symbol of mourning, something that is lacking in American back-to-business asap culture. I kept that bracelet on for a full year, only ready to relinquish it at month 13. I wish I could adequately express thanks to my brother for opening my eyes and heart. Sadly, he became a diehard Trump supporter and apparently there is no room for nuance or grace in our relationship. In a funny way, I think he's replaying our parents' political schism with me. Mom was a devoted Kennedy Democrat, Dad was a Nixon man. As a little kid, I thought that was why they got divorced.
Alison, thank you for coming back to leave this comment. What you said about the black ribbon really resonated. I’m Jewish, but not religious. I thought I’d take the black ribbon off as soon as I got home, but I wore it for months and kept it on my desk for a year. Strange that we both felt the same way about that tradition, isn’t it?
I think without maybe meaning to initially, you did the exact thing she needed by being gentle in your approach but then ultimately making her laugh. I loved this post 🧡.
As usual, I can’t remember all of your questions by the time I get to my comment. But I definitely read the situation and lean in more than not (I would probably be a terrible social worker if I didn’t). Though if I can see someone is really struggling to put a lid on their emotions, I might just make a kind face before moving on with my order. After all, it’s more about their goals in that moment than any “credit” I get for trying to be human.
I don’t often enter donut shops (I agree the coffee usually stinks, and that goes for the big chain shops too). But when I do, it’s a Krispy Kreme and I am expressly there to experience a chocolate covered, “kreme” filled donut. I might also buy a pumpkin glazed if the season is right, because I’m proud to be just a little basic 🎃.
I can’t wait in some ways to be elderly, when I can eat pastries with impunity. I’ve said that for years.
Thank you, Amy! Truth be told, I have trouble remember the questions too. I wish there was a way for them to be present when you go to comment, but I don't think that's a feature Substack is going to prioritize. Sigh.
Anyway, I really appreciate your comment about leaning in when you can. I have quite a few friends who are social workers, and for the most part, they are the types who leaned in quite naturally.
As for the donuts, you're making good choices! And here's to getting old and eating donuts with impunity, that's a damn dream!
Yeah, there needs to be a View Post button at the top of these comment threads.
What donut did you wind up choosing and were you satisfied?
Old fashioned glazed. It was lovely.
Sorry to say, this elderly (68) person can’t eat pastries with impunity. But, I just limit myself to once a month or so.
I don’t consider 68 elderly. I’m talking like 80. The gravy years...
Legit there are at least 5,479 weird things about me, but two of them are that I ALWAYS drink my coffee with a straw [pauses for gasp] and I love whip cream on top like a real psycho. (So then I can expertly shovel it out with the straw--a talent that is often imitated, never duplicated. 😂 Mostly because other people have way more good sense than me.) Glad you made her day - she can use all the laughs she can get. 💛
Thank you, Ash! Can you say more about the whipped cream coffee connection? Where did you learn this? Is there a coffee culture that does whipped cream that I'm unaware of? I need to know. 😂☕️
I think it’s called “growing up in a trailer park with a mom who was trying to make things better through the little details she could afford.” ❤️ It was our afternoon treat in the summer--coffee with whip cream. Thanks for asking--that was a nice memory to unpack!
Thank you for sharing that beautiful memory. Btw, if you check the comments on this post you’ll see that you’re not alone on the whipped cream in coffee thing.
I struggle to separate others’ emotions from my own which is why I could never be a counsellor. I’d probably cry more than the client, then take it home with me and cry some more.
I often wonder about that with therapists. It must be so difficult to keep that professional distance.
I think you have to be a particular type of personality to manage the separation. I remember asking a counsellor friend about that. She told me that she doesn’t take it home because it isn’t her pain. Another counsellor friend told me that she doesn’t take on anything that she knows might trigger her own emotions or experiences, which makes sense - that’s self protection.
Such a real life story. Pain is part of life. So is laughter. And confusion. And sympathy. It's all part of being human.
I can't conceive of going into a donut shop and not getting a donut. It is a donut shop! That is its purpose. But, I don't drink coffee, so I have no other reason to visit donut shop.
Thanks Mark! Regarding donut shops and their purpose, my local donut shop also sells lottery tickets, so there are people who go there and don’t get coffee or donuts. Just lottery tickets. Nuts, right?
Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. If I won the lottery, I would buy more donuts.
Same! Great minds.
Dough nuts?
I see what you did there, sir.
Your anecdotes are just brilliant. I could see them all moving into a novel. From donut shops to colonoscopies!
Thank you! And there's something poetic, maybe intentional (or not), about going from donut shops to colonoscopies.
Poetic and practical! :)
So I have this idea. And it kind of draws from this notion in Buddhism that our dead loved ones can hear us while they’re traveling to their next resting place. And, if you want to, you should talk to them—because they can be encouraged by being reminded of our love for them.
Anyways, there were specific places in my grief where I definitely sensed I was still “tethered” to my loved ones (children, a beloved dog). I would talk to them, imagine them walking in a meadow, I’d sing to them and try to keep them company, such as it was. This “tethering” lasted a year in one case, three in another. But then there was this point where my “grief songs” felt like their job was done and the tether turned into something else entirely. What, I am not sure. But I just know things changed and it felt like maybe they had “arrived” wherever they were headed next. And so had I?
***
I think you work so adeptly with dialogue. It really inspires me in my own writing (and eavesdropping). Also, I didn’t know there was a custom for Jewish sons placing the headstone for their father after a year of grieving. That feels very discerning to me, like someone standing guard for your grief to give it some space. Thank you for sharing about that.
I think this is a beautiful idea, Amanda. I've heard lots of nurses say that you should talk to loved ones even if you think they can't hear you, because maybe they can. And who really knows what happens after we die, right? Maybe we're all just energy and star dust, but we sorta cling to the people who love us, and listen in for whatever they have to say. I hope that's the case.
As for the Jewish custom, it's not specific to father's and sons. I was just talking about my own experience with my dad after he passed. The custom is to stay away from the grave for a year, then on the one-year anniversary, the family gathers to place the headstone. I'm Jewish, but not very religious, so I'm not sure what the rationale is there. But that's how we do it.
I definitely think the afterlife is best left open to the imagination. There’s a lot about grief that can be unrelenting and having to then fit it inside one specific (usually religious) narrative just adds to the cruelty.
Thanks for clarifying about the custom. I must have misunderstood in my first reading. My therapist said once that it’s not just coincidence that we go a little sideways around anniversaries of loss. It’s the body’s way of “remembering.” So a custom seems like a fitting use of that energy that’s coming.
More often I worry I will say the wrong thing and then don't say anything at all. My first reaction is to hug, if it is a person close to me. An acquaintance, I might say do you need my help.
Grief takes as long as it takes. Every person is different, every relationship changes the dynamic of the grieving. Hardcore grieving should last no more than 2 years.
My steadfast rule is if you drive to a doughnut shop, you are honestly not there for the coffee. I'm there for the crullers and powdered sugar cake doughnut.
When I was a child my mom made doughnuts in her electric deep fat fryer, they were to die for, coated in powdered sugar. Old fashion doughnut shop doughnuts come close.
Whipping cream, of course, is a condiment at my house. Great for a quick snack, the list of uses is long, on berries, on ice cream, and definitely in coffee, I call it a quick latte.
Thank for this comment, Judith! I think you’re probably right about donut shops. But what I really want now are homemade donuts. Those sound sooooo good!
I lean in. I'm old enough to have experienced a myriad of pains. So I try to empathize.
Grief takes a lifetime. But I feel it's proportionate to the size of the loss.
I like the occasional donut but prefer scones. The go to is lemon filled.
I don't know too much donut history. But I suspect they were rather simple.
No whipped cream in my coffee. Although it might work and not cool down coffee?
I'm definitely a "room for cream" club member. I'm not opposed to flavored creamer. And those English Toffee gas station fake lattes are a delicious alternative to an energy drink. But they come out so hot, and their deliciousness is so tempting, I burn my mouth every time.
Thanks for this comment, Christie, and the tip about the English Toffee gas station fake lattes! I usually just grab a Coke Zero if I need the caffeine and some gas, but I'll have to give the hot stuff a try.
I feel that the duration of the grieving process strongly depends on how open a person is to accepting the passing of a loved one. Attachment to a loved one can cause great pain as the person learns to cope and acclimatize to their absence. Even if that person might have had a love and hate relationship with the departed, the absence can still create a massive void in their life. It can take years if not decades for the person to grief if they have a hard time of letting go of the departed and continue to dwell in the denial of their passing. However, spiritual practices can help alleviate suffering while grieving as they gain a deeper understanding of death and shorten the grieving process.
Thank you for sharing this!
I’ll go out of my way to help a stranger, except when it comes to bereavement. I’ll buy them multiple drinks, but find it’s best to let them talk.
How long does grief take? It depends on the person that has died. I take the view that we of course, bury our dead, but honour them most by caring for the still living.