The more I hear it, the more I like it. Makes me sad, especially the Peter Jackson music video. The AI origin, ironically, comes from something Paul said about them using AI to make a new Beatles song a year or so ago. The problem is, I think he meant ‘machine learning technology that separates the piano from the voice’ but people heard ‘fake Lennon vocals.’ It’s AI like spellcheck is AI, but not AI like ChatGPT.
It’s fascinating to see how story about the song has sort of gotten away from everyone. Would love to know more about the errant Paul McCartney comment if you have a link.
You know what’s killing me? This Black Forest mocha I got at the airport! Now when I shit, I don’t know if the sour cherry sauce stained my shit red or if I’m painlessly dying from within.
I like the new Beatles song, mostly because I saw that short docu about how it was created first - I just think it’s cool that they could get Lennon’s vocals clear off that old tape! Bill & Ted however will not be able to get their shit together without something bringing George Carlin back to help them, so maybe AI could help with that too. (Love the B&T references, as one of the kids who was an extra in the film, I’ll always hold out hope for that excellent utopia!! ;)
Robin, THANK YOU for picking up on the B&T! They probably do need George Carlin's help. Also, you were an extra in the film? OMG! What scene? Are you able to identify yourself in the movie? That's so cool!
Haha it’s my 15 seconds of fame, if fame is one of my friends or family texting me every time I come up on their tv on TBS. I got lucky - I was an extra filming at the mall & an actress for a bit part didn’t show up (or something) so they pulled me. I am one of the girls at the food court, but not the one that actually has a line 😆
Like anything, I think there is good and bad here. Given that Paul McCartney and Ringo can do whatever the fuck they want and can't spend all of the money they already have, I find it hard to believe they did this for money.
I think they just wanted to give the world another Beatles' song. And it's fine song IMHO, if not exactly classic Beatles.
My problem with it is how it fits into the rest of our pop culture which so often does give us the exact same thing over and over and over -- yes, I'm looking at you Marvel -- in order to make a buck. That's the cynical part that depresses the crap out of me.
This is a really good point, Michael! There’s a lot of energy (and money) in hammering audiences with the same stuff over and over again. That isn’t about AI, but it’s just as big of a threat to culture as songs that may or may not be made with AI or machine learning or some other tech.
Yeah, it really feels like Hollywood blockbusters and the need to spinoff 18 versions of new shows -- looking at you, Star Trek -- are sucking the life out of a lot things...
Yeah, there was a time when I was a baby screenwriter. I quit because, frankly, I just didn't love it. But one of the most depressing things to me was that success was booking an assignment to write the remake / reboot of something that inspired me to make movies in the first place. The dream, my dream at least, was to make something cool and new, not reheat something that already exists. A personal breaking point was working with a producer who wanted me to write a thriller like Seven, but make it better. "Make it eight," he said. The man was not joking.
The Beatles. Are. Great. They were good individually but the sum of the parts is so much great than the whole. So was Pink Floyd although Gilmore kept the sounds alive without Roger. The Stones are outstanding but the percentage of their music I like isn’t nearly as high as the boys.
As far as Now and Then, well…it basically sucks. I mean, it’s not a good song and it is weird. Your barista is right to feel the way she does and much be pretty cool.
Where is question #6? Is that the one that asks what one band would you want to have on a deserted island?
I feel the same way about the Stones. Great songs but a lot of misses too. Maybe that’s a function of rocking and rolling for so long. As for question six, it’s deliberately blank. Think of it as dealer’s choice.
I like the Beatles but I haven't listened to the song. I'm open-minded to the idea of the song, but I feel like they shouldn't have done it. Life is random. Things end. Scarcity and chance make life meaningful.
Well said! I think there's something off about something coming to an end, but it doesn't really end. I mean, everything ends, but I guess Paul and Ringo would beg to differ?? And maybe things don't really end in an AI world. Because even if this song isn't AI and even if it really is the last Beatles song, I'm pretty sure that AI will give us new versions of groups that have long since shuffled off this mortal coil.
I like it. I'm particularly enjoying the remastered versions of their early songs that are using the same MAL to separate old recordings that had all instruments in one track and voices in the other. I appreciate the candor of the barista and even though this may hit us right in the nostalgia and make a piles of money in the process, well, that's capitalism, baby! Deal with it. Obviously, we will all find something to complain about at some point.
Important question, did you get a breakfast burrito? Also, what's your go to coffee order?
I'm still working my way through it, up to Lady Madonna now as I type this.
The Beatles turned my world upside down 40 years ago. I'm still catching my breath at how amazing they are.
But they deliberately didn't record a bunch of songs, and while they have an utterly impressive body of work (huge, too!), it's just as important what they left out as what they chose to leave in.
AI isn't our enemy here as much as the music industry, IMO.
This is a really good point, Andrew! This was a song John was working on after the band broke up. Everyone seems to be saying he would've wanted them to finish it, but we don't really know what John wanted to do with the song. Maybe he wanted to do it solo. Maybe he wanted to get the band back together and finish it. Or, maybe he wanted to shelve it.
To me, this hearkens back to the olden days, back when artists would create full albums, to be listened to in a very intentional order, and those were the songs the artists wanted to give you... in that order. I listen to a lot of older albums (and always have), and view them almost as a lost art.
TL;DR: if an artist is suggesting that I experience their work in a particular way, I'm likely to give that experience a shot.
Yes, I was born in the 1950s and I liked The Beatles at the time. I remember hearing about the movie Let It Be. I went to see it in its first run by myself. I’m pretty sure I knew they were breaking up. It was truely an uplifting film for me. Of course, I was still 3 years away from draft age.
Now and Then is too down to be a great song from the band, but it is reminiscent of a John Lennon song. I enjoyed the Peter Jackson documentary. It was warming to see the backstory of the Let It Be film. think it’s great that we can process old audio to capture voice buried in the noise. But I didn’t think Now And Then added anything to The Beatles. I’m sure over the next decade well mine more of the recent history with the technology. Get ready for more recovery of band’s demo tapes.
I was too old for Bill and Ted, but if anyone can save the world, it would be them. Good Luck with that.
Baristas must be encouraged to interact with customers. I always try to interact without being a creepy pole man. It’s probably because a lot of them feel like this is just an early step on their road and don’t feel beaten down so they are able to take the work without being sour.
I wasn’t aware there are multiple déjàs. Really, you’ve given me a rabbit hole to explore, thanks.
Podcasts have been something I’ve really enjoyed since the early 2000s. But for me it’s a completely different experience than reading. I can pick up a good essay while eating breakfast. A podcast is something I do while working, driving, or at the gym. I’ll keep listening to you. I think you are doing good ones.
I wonder about what music people will be listening to in like 200 years. Will The Beatles, Pink Floyd, and the like be part of “The Classical Music” like Bach and Beethoven?
As always, thank you for reading AND listening! I really appreciate it. Your take on the song is interesting. It gave me a solo Lennon feel more than a Beatles feel. One thing I need to push back on: you’re never too old for Bill & Ted. That series is deeper / more philosophical than people realize.
First comment on your Substack Michael, and I can already see the pitchforks. Well here goes! I'm not a Beatles fan in general, although I do like certain specific songs and I do like John Lennon a lot. I'm a diehard U2, Imagine Dragons, and Rolling Stones girl — actually met the Stones years ago on the set of their music video for Mixed Emotions, and can share they were absolute gentlemen.
The new Beatles song is fascinating for what they were able to do with technology. To Wil Dalton's point, unfortunate that there's a misunderstanding about how ML was used, not to regenerate John Lennon's voice but to isolate it from the original tape. There are numerous forms of AI, not just one, and that's what people tend to confuse. What worries me more is the misuse of synthetic AI voices, unauthorized songs using real artists' voices without their permission, etc. Because humans will be humans.
First, welcome to the Situation Normal comments section, Birgitte! I'm so glad you're here! I'm right there with you on the synthetic AI voices. I'm pretty sure they've been robo-calling me and will really crank things up in 2024. As for the confusion about the Beatles, I think you're gonna want to listen to the latest Situation Normal podcast. I talk about this a lot, and also, there's a story with someone who has the same name as you, but most likely isn't you. https://open.substack.com/pub/michaelestrin/p/episode-3-ai-john-lennon-or-user?r=1fqhx&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
I grew up playing my parents Beatles albums over and over and over and over and over on the turntable. I listened to all the songs so many times I can’t even hear them anymore like the way I don’t notice the air I am breathing.
Hence I neither like nor dislike. I wish I could hear them again for the first time so I could have an opinions!
I just listened to it yesterday for the first time with my little brother on the car ride to family Thanksgiving. It is a very boring song! What does that say?
He LOVES the Beatles and said the amazing thing about their collective work is that so many of their tunes pushed the boundaries in new ways. BUT NOT NOW AND THEN.
Haha, I've heard that from other musician friends. I have some thoughts on that very subject coming on the next pod. Plus, stories about me and technology, naturally.
it actually grew on me a bit after third listen spaced out over a few days but not enough to get real traction if measured up not against legend but in the moment seduction so......
"Music taps into something deep inside us—a sacred place in our souls where emotions, identity, and community intersect." This is everything. Surely there is an Etsy shop out there who can turn this into a poster, yes? I'd gift myself, and you Michael, a piece of art like that!
The more I hear it, the more I like it. Makes me sad, especially the Peter Jackson music video. The AI origin, ironically, comes from something Paul said about them using AI to make a new Beatles song a year or so ago. The problem is, I think he meant ‘machine learning technology that separates the piano from the voice’ but people heard ‘fake Lennon vocals.’ It’s AI like spellcheck is AI, but not AI like ChatGPT.
It’s fascinating to see how story about the song has sort of gotten away from everyone. Would love to know more about the errant Paul McCartney comment if you have a link.
Don’t have a link to the radio interview,
Here’s a story about him clarifying: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-mccartney-ai-beatles-song-artificial-intelligence/
Thanks!
You know what’s killing me? This Black Forest mocha I got at the airport! Now when I shit, I don’t know if the sour cherry sauce stained my shit red or if I’m painlessly dying from within.
I like the new Beatles song, mostly because I saw that short docu about how it was created first - I just think it’s cool that they could get Lennon’s vocals clear off that old tape! Bill & Ted however will not be able to get their shit together without something bringing George Carlin back to help them, so maybe AI could help with that too. (Love the B&T references, as one of the kids who was an extra in the film, I’ll always hold out hope for that excellent utopia!! ;)
Robin, THANK YOU for picking up on the B&T! They probably do need George Carlin's help. Also, you were an extra in the film? OMG! What scene? Are you able to identify yourself in the movie? That's so cool!
Haha it’s my 15 seconds of fame, if fame is one of my friends or family texting me every time I come up on their tv on TBS. I got lucky - I was an extra filming at the mall & an actress for a bit part didn’t show up (or something) so they pulled me. I am one of the girls at the food court, but not the one that actually has a line 😆
Amazing!
Like anything, I think there is good and bad here. Given that Paul McCartney and Ringo can do whatever the fuck they want and can't spend all of the money they already have, I find it hard to believe they did this for money.
I think they just wanted to give the world another Beatles' song. And it's fine song IMHO, if not exactly classic Beatles.
My problem with it is how it fits into the rest of our pop culture which so often does give us the exact same thing over and over and over -- yes, I'm looking at you Marvel -- in order to make a buck. That's the cynical part that depresses the crap out of me.
This is a really good point, Michael! There’s a lot of energy (and money) in hammering audiences with the same stuff over and over again. That isn’t about AI, but it’s just as big of a threat to culture as songs that may or may not be made with AI or machine learning or some other tech.
Yeah, it really feels like Hollywood blockbusters and the need to spinoff 18 versions of new shows -- looking at you, Star Trek -- are sucking the life out of a lot things...
Yeah, there was a time when I was a baby screenwriter. I quit because, frankly, I just didn't love it. But one of the most depressing things to me was that success was booking an assignment to write the remake / reboot of something that inspired me to make movies in the first place. The dream, my dream at least, was to make something cool and new, not reheat something that already exists. A personal breaking point was working with a producer who wanted me to write a thriller like Seven, but make it better. "Make it eight," he said. The man was not joking.
So true. One of the reasons I rarely go to the movies anymore, and I really love movies.
Not liking The Beatles is like not liking the sun.
Some people live in darkness I guess. But here comes the sun, John!
Ahem. I don't particularly care for the Beatles—I'm a diehard U2 and Imagine Dragons girl. They've got their own solar systems :)
I enjoyed reading this, thank you.
I’m glad! Thanks for letting me know!
The Beatles. Are. Great. They were good individually but the sum of the parts is so much great than the whole. So was Pink Floyd although Gilmore kept the sounds alive without Roger. The Stones are outstanding but the percentage of their music I like isn’t nearly as high as the boys.
As far as Now and Then, well…it basically sucks. I mean, it’s not a good song and it is weird. Your barista is right to feel the way she does and much be pretty cool.
Where is question #6? Is that the one that asks what one band would you want to have on a deserted island?
I feel the same way about the Stones. Great songs but a lot of misses too. Maybe that’s a function of rocking and rolling for so long. As for question six, it’s deliberately blank. Think of it as dealer’s choice.
I like the Beatles but I haven't listened to the song. I'm open-minded to the idea of the song, but I feel like they shouldn't have done it. Life is random. Things end. Scarcity and chance make life meaningful.
Well said! I think there's something off about something coming to an end, but it doesn't really end. I mean, everything ends, but I guess Paul and Ringo would beg to differ?? And maybe things don't really end in an AI world. Because even if this song isn't AI and even if it really is the last Beatles song, I'm pretty sure that AI will give us new versions of groups that have long since shuffled off this mortal coil.
The enshittification of humanity.
"scarcity" is key word there nailed it
I like it. I'm particularly enjoying the remastered versions of their early songs that are using the same MAL to separate old recordings that had all instruments in one track and voices in the other. I appreciate the candor of the barista and even though this may hit us right in the nostalgia and make a piles of money in the process, well, that's capitalism, baby! Deal with it. Obviously, we will all find something to complain about at some point.
Important question, did you get a breakfast burrito? Also, what's your go to coffee order?
I did get the breakfast burrito! It was great! My go-to coffee order is basic. I take my coffee black with stevia.
Michael, I was listening to this when I clicked to open your email:
https://www.pandora.com/playlist/play/PL:142684725595611624:74638688
I'm still working my way through it, up to Lady Madonna now as I type this.
The Beatles turned my world upside down 40 years ago. I'm still catching my breath at how amazing they are.
But they deliberately didn't record a bunch of songs, and while they have an utterly impressive body of work (huge, too!), it's just as important what they left out as what they chose to leave in.
AI isn't our enemy here as much as the music industry, IMO.
This is a really good point, Andrew! This was a song John was working on after the band broke up. Everyone seems to be saying he would've wanted them to finish it, but we don't really know what John wanted to do with the song. Maybe he wanted to do it solo. Maybe he wanted to get the band back together and finish it. Or, maybe he wanted to shelve it.
To me, this hearkens back to the olden days, back when artists would create full albums, to be listened to in a very intentional order, and those were the songs the artists wanted to give you... in that order. I listen to a lot of older albums (and always have), and view them almost as a lost art.
TL;DR: if an artist is suggesting that I experience their work in a particular way, I'm likely to give that experience a shot.
Yes, I was born in the 1950s and I liked The Beatles at the time. I remember hearing about the movie Let It Be. I went to see it in its first run by myself. I’m pretty sure I knew they were breaking up. It was truely an uplifting film for me. Of course, I was still 3 years away from draft age.
Now and Then is too down to be a great song from the band, but it is reminiscent of a John Lennon song. I enjoyed the Peter Jackson documentary. It was warming to see the backstory of the Let It Be film. think it’s great that we can process old audio to capture voice buried in the noise. But I didn’t think Now And Then added anything to The Beatles. I’m sure over the next decade well mine more of the recent history with the technology. Get ready for more recovery of band’s demo tapes.
I was too old for Bill and Ted, but if anyone can save the world, it would be them. Good Luck with that.
Baristas must be encouraged to interact with customers. I always try to interact without being a creepy pole man. It’s probably because a lot of them feel like this is just an early step on their road and don’t feel beaten down so they are able to take the work without being sour.
I wasn’t aware there are multiple déjàs. Really, you’ve given me a rabbit hole to explore, thanks.
Podcasts have been something I’ve really enjoyed since the early 2000s. But for me it’s a completely different experience than reading. I can pick up a good essay while eating breakfast. A podcast is something I do while working, driving, or at the gym. I’ll keep listening to you. I think you are doing good ones.
I wonder about what music people will be listening to in like 200 years. Will The Beatles, Pink Floyd, and the like be part of “The Classical Music” like Bach and Beethoven?
As always, thank you for reading AND listening! I really appreciate it. Your take on the song is interesting. It gave me a solo Lennon feel more than a Beatles feel. One thing I need to push back on: you’re never too old for Bill & Ted. That series is deeper / more philosophical than people realize.
I’ll accept that challenge!
Oh man, did you read the last essay @michaldean9 published? Your two essays could have been published together. Check it out https://open.substack.com/pub/michaeldean9/p/lucy-in-the-sky-of-large-language-models
I didn’t see this essay, but thank you for sharing it!
First comment on your Substack Michael, and I can already see the pitchforks. Well here goes! I'm not a Beatles fan in general, although I do like certain specific songs and I do like John Lennon a lot. I'm a diehard U2, Imagine Dragons, and Rolling Stones girl — actually met the Stones years ago on the set of their music video for Mixed Emotions, and can share they were absolute gentlemen.
The new Beatles song is fascinating for what they were able to do with technology. To Wil Dalton's point, unfortunate that there's a misunderstanding about how ML was used, not to regenerate John Lennon's voice but to isolate it from the original tape. There are numerous forms of AI, not just one, and that's what people tend to confuse. What worries me more is the misuse of synthetic AI voices, unauthorized songs using real artists' voices without their permission, etc. Because humans will be humans.
First, welcome to the Situation Normal comments section, Birgitte! I'm so glad you're here! I'm right there with you on the synthetic AI voices. I'm pretty sure they've been robo-calling me and will really crank things up in 2024. As for the confusion about the Beatles, I think you're gonna want to listen to the latest Situation Normal podcast. I talk about this a lot, and also, there's a story with someone who has the same name as you, but most likely isn't you. https://open.substack.com/pub/michaelestrin/p/episode-3-ai-john-lennon-or-user?r=1fqhx&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
I grew up playing my parents Beatles albums over and over and over and over and over on the turntable. I listened to all the songs so many times I can’t even hear them anymore like the way I don’t notice the air I am breathing.
Hence I neither like nor dislike. I wish I could hear them again for the first time so I could have an opinions!
Maybe Now and Then is just the song you need to break through. Have you heard it yet?
I just listened to it yesterday for the first time with my little brother on the car ride to family Thanksgiving. It is a very boring song! What does that say?
It says you’re over the Beatles. Like way over them. What did your brother think? He’s the music expert we need to hear from.
He LOVES the Beatles and said the amazing thing about their collective work is that so many of their tunes pushed the boundaries in new ways. BUT NOT NOW AND THEN.
Haha, I've heard that from other musician friends. I have some thoughts on that very subject coming on the next pod. Plus, stories about me and technology, naturally.
Oh boy, looking forward!
it actually grew on me a bit after third listen spaced out over a few days but not enough to get real traction if measured up not against legend but in the moment seduction so......
The documentary is beautiful
It really is
What do those other deja words mean
all the related dejas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9j%C3%A0_vu#Related_terms
"Music taps into something deep inside us—a sacred place in our souls where emotions, identity, and community intersect." This is everything. Surely there is an Etsy shop out there who can turn this into a poster, yes? I'd gift myself, and you Michael, a piece of art like that!
at some point there will be situation normal swag. not sure what form it'll take, but that's one thing i want to make happen in 2024.
cocktail napkins?!!!?
Or, maybe coasters.
Can't wait to see what materializes!